Maulana Sheikh NazimUSA - TV-INTERVIEW

Q: The reluctance and aversion that many people have against religion is against the dogma and rituals. For some people that is good, but others just don't want that. They want the essence, they want to feel the Creator in all things.

Yes, me too, I wish I was directly in connection with Clinton. Do you think that it is easy? Or look at the situation here, I am a Naqshibandi Leader with a religious position, and there is no way for me to be in contact with His Holiness the Pope. So how can people think that they can be directly in connection with the Creator? Do you think that there is no Heavenly Protocol? Everything has protocols and rules. And with Sultans and Emperors it is even more difficult. Allah, the Lord of Heavens is easy to reach, but you do need some protocols.

We are now earthly beings, but our souls are heavenly. So whoever wants to get a direct connection to the Lord of Heavens must use his Heavenly Beings. In this life people are usually under the hegemony of their physical bodies. Until we can control everything connected our body and its desires, it is impossible to arise to Heavens. Jesus Christ rose to Heavens and you must be like Jesus Christ and be able to get up. Muhammad, may peace be upon him also walked through Heavens on the Night of Journey. These are our leaders and they want us to follow them. If anyone can follow them step by step, they will also reach that which they reached. Abraham also had a journey through Heavens, as well as all the other prophets. They all had Heavenly Journeys. Saints also have journeys through Heavens, because without that, you cannot reach the Lord of Heavens. You have to sacrifice something. You have to do something to get there.

There have been sufis, meaning mystics, since the first man. We consider the first man to also be the first prophet. He was in direct connection with Heavens. From his descendants there were a 124 000 prophets and they were all in connection with Heavens. So being a sufi is not something new. We can also call it Heavenly Ways, because they enable people to reach Heavens, nothing else. It is not a guideline for this life, no! It is only for those who are interested in Heavens, in their spiritual beings and in their souls improvement and enlightening. So whoever is really interested must follow and practise according to one master who has an authority and special permission to go to Heavens. If you find a master who is unauthorised and has no permission, you will always be here. You will be like a plane without the permission to fly. It will run up and down on the runway, but it will be unable because it is not getting permission from the control-tower.

These permissions do not belong to politicians, to presidents or even to specialists or religious people. No, this is something else.

Q: What would be your message to President Clinton?

It is not easy for someone like me to reach to President Clinton, because he has such important duties and responsibilites that he cannot give any time. Everyone wants to meet him, but that is impossible. So you have to be a very, very, very important one like Arafat, or Rabin, or Jeltsin... There is nothing I have to say to him because he has inspirations. He has been appointed to be the first on earth. We know that the USA is the boss of the whole world, and the boss of the USA is Clinton. But a position like that should be appointed by the Lord of Heavens. It is wrong to be appointed boss of the whole world without asking the Lord of Heavens. A president should be appointed by Heavenly Orders. That is the respect that should be kept. Now religious people must pray for him and sufi people, who have much more spiritual power, must try to support him spiritually so that he doesn't fall into the hands of devils.

Q: Could you please tell us what tariqat is.

Those are sufi-ways, heavenly ways. It is an Arabic word and it means 'way'. It is the way that someone will take who wants to reach heavens. We know that people do not all have the same ability and that they are not all on the same level. Everyone is so different. We are not like communists who want to make people into wheat, pretending that there are no other vegetables or plants, making everything the same. We know that the Creator created everyone with a speciality and made everyone different. Even twins cannot be the same. From billions and billions of people, you cannot find two who are exactly the same. And if you could find two who are the same, they would not be thinking the same thing at the same time, or to intend the same thing, or to do the same thing. So according to the levels of understanding and according to the capacity of different people, we have 41 ways, tariqats, specialised in bringing people to Heavens. From very common people to the most clever-ones, these 41 tariqats have different methods suitable for everyone.

Q: So you can prepare yourself for this...

No! Because it always comes at an unexpected time. You may expect spirituality to come one night, but it never will. It is always at an unexpected time. People want to reach mystical experiences. So, for example, someone could be fasting for that reason, or he will recite the Quran for that purpose, or he will go into seclusion for that purpose. So he is expecting a spiritual experience at a special time. But it is impossible for spirituality to come under the control of man. It must come from Heavenly Orders. And these cannot be under the orders of servants. Just like the orders of a Sultan cannot be under the control of a servant. A servant can expect something from his Sultan for his service, but the Sultan will decide himself when he will give it. It would not be good manners for a servant to ask the Sultan for a reward. The best manners are to do something without asking for reward. It is enough honour for a person to be the servant of a Sultan without asking for anything. It is even enough to be in the Royal Presence of the Sultan. So it is enough for servants who are asking for Heavenly Experiences, or spiritual experiences, not to ask, but to submit under the orders of their Lord and to say, "Oh, my Lord, it is enough, more than enough that you accept me in your Divine Presence. I am your servant." It is not good manners for a worshipper to ask anything from his Lord. If He gives, then that is a grant from his Divine Presence. If He doesn't give, we must also be happy.

We must live int he same way which we teach. Wisdoms are produced in the hearts, not on the tongues. If anyone knows a lot of wisdoms, it doesn't mean that he is a wise man, he is like a cassette. But whoever brings wisdoms out of themselves, they have real wisdoms. This is what we need now, people who will give us wisdoms concerning the lives of people to enlighten the lives of mankind. You will never find such people easily but many, many of them who are imitated, plastic.

You can find so many cassette-people who have collected hundreds of wisdoms from other people, but they cannot produce anything themselves. So whoever repeats from others are just made out of plastic. That is not good. We want real-ones and they are very, very, very rare. I would like to get some wisdoms myself, but the people just speak and speak and speak. I cannot enjoy their words, because official things are plastic. Official meetings are plastic-meetings. Real ones can save mankind. That is all!

Don't get this wrong: all good-ones will end up in Paradise and all bad-ones in hell. I am not saying that all Muslims are good and I am not saying that all Christians are bad. Don't be a fanatic! God knows who is a good servant and will put that one into Paradise. Whoever is a bad servant will be kicked into hell. Be a good-one and don't worry. If you are a bad-one ...

A few years ago you had the problem of Watergate in America. The President and many other big people were involved. They were big-ones, but their titles couldn't save them. Paradise is for clean-ones, hells for dirty-ones. Be happy! Every night before you sleep ask yourself if you did your best for other people or if you did your best for your Lord. If your conscience tells you that you gave your best for your Lord, then sleep well and if your Lord calls you in your sleep, then be happy. If not, then don't expect Him to be happy with you. We hope that we are doing our best and that we do not think bad about others. I am angry with everyone who cheats people. I don't like people who cheat. But at this Peace Conference there are so many of them who are cheating. They only speak officially and then it is written down to be read again, but they never do what they say.

Italy - 01.11.1994

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